Say It So They Buy ItEpisode 8
Building Today’s Team for Tomorrow’s $100M
Pauline Oudin, Chief Executive Officer of Gradient Experience, on proving event ROI, capturing first-party data, and hiring for $100M at $30M.
About this episode
Most companies hire for the business they have. Pauline Oudin hires for the business she’s building. As Chief Executive Officer of Gradient Experience, a 16 year old experiential agency behind launches for brands in beauty, spirits, and luxury, Pauline runs a 30 million dollar business with a leadership team built for 100 million.
In this episode, Mark Gordon and Pauline get into the question every marketer runs into sooner or later: how do you prove an experience actually moved the business? Pauline explains how social media and AI have changed what events are for, why large brands struggle to measure ROI when their event, PR, and retail teams work in silos, and how Gradient turned its expertise into a standalone tech company. Mark brings the go-to-market lens, pressing on customer acquisition cost, growth discipline, and the mistakes smaller businesses make when they write events off as too expensive.
Events aren’t expensive. They’re expensive compared to the wrong alternative.
Thank you to Pauline Oudin for joining us.
Also in the conversation
- The IMPACT framework Gradient uses to grade every experience, plus a free tool to rank your own.
- How Impulse uses event photography as a “Trojan horse” to capture first-party data, with sign-on rates around 75%.
- How Hendrick’s launched a new gin without leaning on a traditional media buy.
- Why brands often choose creative agencies on gut feel, and why Pauline won’t.
- Her rule for every growth experiment: test, evaluate, cut, repeat.
In their words
“we are looking to build a hundred million dollar business, not stay at a thirty million dollar business. And so we have already structured our team for tomorrow's numbers and tomorrow's growth.”
Pauline Oudin · 7:26
“there is a need by most brands to believe that their creative agency is more creative than they are.”
Pauline Oudin
“Just tell me exactly what's the timeline you're giving yourself to evaluate it and to cut it... So it's just discipline of test, evaluate, cut, repeat.”
Pauline Oudin · 36:40
“events are so expensive. And I think the the question that we always ask back is compared to what?”
Pauline Oudin · 38:31
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Questions this episode answers
How does Gradient Experience measure the ROI of an event?
They use a framework called IMPACT: integrated, measurable, participatory, effective, community building, and true to brand. They also built their own tracking system from the best existing tools, and they offer a free online tool to score your own event against others.
Why does a $30M agency have six executives?
Pauline Oudin says they built the bench for the business they want, not the one they have. The goal is $100M, so the team is structured for tomorrow's numbers, even though that was hard to carry during COVID.
Why do big brands resist tying events to sales results?
Oudin says the larger the company, the more siloed the teams. The events team often has no connection to retail, so when Gradient proposed tying a pop-up to a nearby retailer to prove drive-to-sale ROI, the client said they only wanted visibility numbers.
How does Gradient keep staff in an industry known for churn?
Two executives have been there 16 years, one starting as an intern, and core employees stay six or seven years. Oudin credits collaboration, fair pay, a strict no-asshole rule, and transparency about how the business is doing and what the objectives are.
What is Impulse and what problem does it solve?
Impulse is a first-party data product for events that uses event photography as a Trojan horse. Attendees take a selfie, facial recognition links them to their photos, and Gradient sees about 75% sign-on rates, which gives brands two-way communication with attendees and more social amplification.
Why does Gradient lead its website with a creative video instead of a clear problem statement?
Oudin admits it costs them on a traditional scoring system, but says choosing a creative agency involves butterflies in your stomach in a way choosing HubSpot or Salesforce never does. Her client-facing team argues brands need to believe their agency is more creative than they are, so she defers to them.
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